@ParticleMan

"where pray tell do you get your info about america? the media?"

It is one source of information. There are many sources of information. Unlike you, a person who sticks to a single line of information, I have many.

"if i believed everything the media tells me about your country, its full of flowers, dikes, drug addicts, and prostitutes. not very moderate."

^ But ..... but ..... my country IS full of flowers, dikes, drug addicts and prostitutes.

However, you could probably only come up with those 4 words while I could start writing now about your country and not stop until Friday next week.

Don't tell me you studied my country as much as I have yours. You never saw a single second of Dutch media while I have seen thousands and thousands of yours.

I even took the trouble of learning your language to perfection while you don't know a single word Dutch. I took the trouble of commenting for almost 2 years now here on this board, going into DIRECT CONVERSATION with American people and from many other nations to talk about things while the only Dutch person you ever conversed with in your life is probably me.

And it is not just these two years, I have a lot of experience with people from all kinds of nations before that, in real life and online. I even had 3 American people as house-mates here in Holland, and know quite a couple of others living here in Amsterdam, one of my best friends here is American.

And you again, don't have this experience.

So come back to me when you've spend at least 15 years OUTSIDE of your solitary American cultural confinement. When you learned my language and when you can look at Dutch media in the same way as I can look at American media. And then we'll talk again about equal ways to judge each other.

And that's why I said that about 'moderate'.

There is nothing moderate about you guys and your remark is a perfect example. You just throw in a single sound byte, as stereotypical as you can get and think that's enough to get your point across. Well, it ain't enough and it'll become obvious once we go into detail. You see, I get most of my info about America from your OWN media, from your OWN countrymen and from your OWN books. Thanks to the internet we aren't confined to a single country anymore, culture-wise. At least, we here in Holland aren't, I know it is hard for people from other countries like America. It is already a big step for you guys to accept OTHER English speaking countries like Canada, England and Australia as part of the world, let alone NON-English speaking countries.

Since you think we can judge our ideas one-on-one over the media, can you name me one Dutch politician? Do you know who our prime minister is? Our foreign secretary? Our secretary of defense? Without googling them? Well, let me tell you, I can tell you those names about American politicians out of my head. Heck, I even follow your primary elections by downloading Republican and Democratic debates over the internet. for starters.

Hehe, but no, lets just throw in a single stereotype about the media and think we're moderate. Btw, if you'd really knew anything about my media, you'd know my media hardly says anything about America. I curse them every day for being such whiny American ass-kissers. Your media and your own countrymen tell me more than I need to know.

"the whole fucking point was that you shouldnt judge a country by what you hear from the media."

And one of my basic points is that that point is just a dumb stereotype.

Because no matter how biased and thwarted the media is, all together combining a lot of media sources they still give an accurate picture of what happens in a country. Let me give a small example. Movies are part of the media too. Now if I see a movie where Clint Eastwood rides a donkey or wears a cowboy hat and a Mexican poncho while he blasts Lee Marvin on the tune of a musical watch I don't assume immediately that all Americans are dressed like that and shoot each other all day accompanied by some music. Now if I see that very same Clint Eastwood in a car chase in Dirt Harry I'm not going to assume you guys chase each other around all day in cars. But I do assume you people have cars. Why? Because the other things are consistently disproved by other media sources I see, but the fact that you people drive cars is consistently proven. So media DO have a truth in them, but you have to cross examine multiple sources to get the full story and not just believe the first thing you see.

"LOL!!!! my best friend is american!!
so that makes you an expert on america?"

Just making the point that MY sources go beyond just the media as you so quickly assumed. I gave other examples and the American friend example was just one example in the list. But of course you single it out as if there's no connection to the rest of my list. Just like you did in your original post towards me.

"look at that, starting your rant with assumptions. not a good foot to start off on."

^ Ha, look at your own first post. You said to me 'the media' in your first post, and that is a single line of information. A discussion is like a game of tennis. If you play a certain ball to me you can sometimes get that same ball back. Anyway, assumptions you say? Please be so kind to fill me in on the vast number of sources you have about my country beyond your media.

The whole point of me mentioning the idea of a one-on-one judgment through the media of our both countries was to point out the fact that you Americans just live as if there are no other countries but America. And boy did you just confirm everything I said.

You guys are just so fucking self-obsessed and don't give a shit about anything else. And that ties in with my original statement to which you reacted, namely the idea that there is no moderation in America. Because moderation is for a very important part made up out of the idea that there are more things and viewpoints important than just the one you hold.

And boy, do you guys fail miserably there.

Examples:

"why would i need to watch dutch media? i covered your country pretty well in my last post."

- Yeah, why watch anything from any other country? America is all that exists, right?

"why would i need to learn dutch? unlike english, which is useful all over the world, and almost a required language, who the fuck speaks dutch other than the dutch?"

- Dutch is just my particular example because that's the one I'm from. Of course I don't really expect you to speak Dutch, it's a fucking small language. But the same example of course goes for any language, languages that really are big, just like English. Speak any Spanish, French, German, Russian or Chinese? No of course not. Why? You just don't give a shit, all you need is America, right?

"it would be cool to learn dutch, except i would never need to use it. and it's fucking weird sounding, and even weirder in print!"

- Again, you would never bother to learn any other language because the non-English speaking world doesn't interest you.

"yep, and that culture is america's, seeping into the rest of the world, due to its superiority over closed off, living in the past, stale, euroculture."

No, it is YOU who are closed off. It is YOU who don't except any influence from the outside and it is Europe and the rest of the world who are open to influences from the rest of the world, including America. We accept your influence but you people actively do everything to repress anything outside of America, After all, you guys are so perfect already, aren't you?

You even try to shut out all other influence from other cultures in European countries too. Want an example? Once we could see all kinds of movies in our theaters from all around the world, English, French, Spanish, American, German, whatever. But Americans came in and bought about every theater possible, and guess what? ONLY American movies are shown now. To bring the 'great' American culture to everybody. You people ACTIVELY repress other cultures wherever you go.

"we dont not accept countries, we just dont think about them. what reason should the average american have to think about the nederlands? most americans dont even know what/where the fuck it is, much less that it's holland. You arent killing us, and you arent giving us the next big thing. why should we care one way or the other?"

- You never care, about nobody. You said it right.

"i cant answer shit about your country. i dont care enough to know those things. there's no reason i need to know, so i dont. I dont have any anger or spite towards your country, it's just not something that matters, to me."

- More confirmation. Yeah, I already knew that. That's why I make such a post saying there's nothing moderate about you guys. And you prove it over and over again in your own words towards me. OF COURSE WE KNOW YOU DON'T CARE. We know you don't care about the rest of the world and only look upon us as a big annoyance.

"thats because MY country has some effect on the world"

And other countries also have some effect on the world. And their influence is NOT negligible like you people seem to think. Of course I have to agree that America's effect on the world is quite a factor bigger than that of every other average country at this moment, besides China. There was a time we enjoyed it very much, but it sort of grew sour and that's why we're keeping a watchful eye on you guys now. but that still doesn't make us look ONLY at America, we look everywhere at every culture. Unlike Americans do.

Me: "your own countrymen tell me more than I need to know."

You: "thats a 2 way street you know"

HA! No, that's not a 2 way street. Again you somehow assume we can judge our experiences like that as a 2 way street. While in reality I have spoken to thousands of Americans already and you spoke to ...... how much .... one .... two Dutchmen? Hehe, yeah sure, you've heard a lot of my fellow countrymen.

"rather than going off on a rant, against something you misunderstood."

Aha, you've said the same against Brig.

But no show with me. I'm not Brig. Listen, I understood all the sarcasm of Zero's article, and I even understood all sarcasm of your first post to which Brig took offense. Maybe you should read my first post in this thread, it's loaded with sarcasm too.

But so far you said a few things here in this thread and every time someone responds to you you claim we 'misunderstand your sarcasm'. Well. I didn't misunderstand anything your first comment. You plain and simply said that I shouldn't trust what my media tells me about your country. And I simply responded to that with overwhelming arguments.

"rather than going off on a rant"

"get off the fucking defensive for a second and slow down your reading, you may understand it better."

Hehe, if somebody writes a rant like this article, expect some reactions. And I didn't even reacted to you until you decided to react to me, quoting a dumb stereotype like "don't trust the media", as if I needed that lesson.

"the whole fucking point was that you shouldnt judge a country by what you hear from the media."

^ Yeah, well, MY whole point was that I got QUITE SOME MORE sources than 'just' the media.

Respect, laterzzz dude.

which is why my comment that you took as a persona attack, due to your misunderstanding, was a question, not an accusation. i said "DO you get your info from the media" not "You retard, you dont know shit about america, you get all your info from the media".

do you see the difference?

and dont bring up brig, he's just a bitter grammar nazi, FAR different to what you are.

so i'm not sure what you're going on about, since i agree, and you agree, even tho you missed the part where i said it.

but i'm going to boil down some of your points.

i dont care about other countries enough to study them. we've both pointed that out and agree. But where i dont think its a big deal, you seem to think its some kind of character flaw. Your vast knowledge of america should let you know that its a big country, with ALOT of people. Those people ALL came from other countries (well, at least their ancestors). they brought their cultures with them which becomes part of american culture. If i want to experience Chinese culture, it's available, dutch culture? its there. swedish culture? yep we got it. Latin american cultures? yep. I could go on, but you get the point, maybe.

my country is big, there are plenty of things to keep my attention here. I also talk on the net to people from all over the world, i read news stories from all over the world, so i see the general concensus of anti-american sentiment the world over. Why would i want to go visit a people that have nothing but animosity towards us? I'm not going to go to someone else's country and force myself on them, only to get attitude. so i stay at home, mind my own business, and watch every other opinionated euro mind our business too.



thats the funniest shit i've ever heard! WE'RE repressing your culture? I admitedly dont know much about your country, but i imagine that it's a free country with a free market. If the dutch people wanted shitty art movies again, they could have them. Did you ever think that the reason american movies are only shown its because thats what the dutch people want? nobody forces shit on you. your people choose what they like and what is good, they obviously like american movies more than art films. I'm sure if there was a demand for shitty movies, someone would open a theater and show non-american movies.

we dont oppress shit, we just make superior products that your people seem to like more than the shit you had before.

but the tastes of the world and the lack of decent movies out of anywhere besides hollywood arent our fault. it sounds like people (of any nationality) can recognise something good, and arent willing to suffer thu shit just because they may seem like they like america (god forbid)



i never said i dont care, i care plenty. its just that i dont think about it at all. it's not my business.

i like the arguments that go like this:

America has its nose in everyones business and is forcing theirselves on the world

followed by

Americans dont care about anyone else since they're worrying about their own business

so which is it, do we want to take over the world, or do we want to mind our own business? no matter which we do jealous eurofags give us shit.

"get out of iraq its none of your business!"
"...but get in *insert country* and save the poor oppressed people that are suffering genocide"



thats because brig just wants to police the english language, not discuss anything of relevance. i could give you examples, but you've been here long enough.



thank fucking god!



No, i plainly and simply ASKED if you got your info from the media and you simply responded with overwhelmingly excessive arguments that missed the point completely.

perhaps your grasp of english isnt as good as you thought.



see thats what this whole thing boils down too, you took offense at the fact that you thought i was giving you a lesson, whereas i was just pointing out the error of your comment, implying that you need to watch your wording. but you took it as a poersonal attack, thinking that i think you're an idiot that gets your info from the media.

so, your sensitive vagina has sand in it over your own insecurities and you're just projecting them onto me, trying to blame me for your insecurity.



thats fine, thats all i was ASKING in the first place "do you get all your info from the media?"

it only took your 4000 words to answer it, but at least you did.

right, and your comment implied that you were. dont get mad at me for pointing it out.



you must have missed the part of the post you so carefully edited that said what i was implying. go back and check it, i'll wait.



right! we have american culture, and then scattered around the country there are pockets of peoples that keep their cultural heritage and do things like they do back in the homeland. but since all of your 'expertise' comes from heresay, i dont expect you to know that.



no, we're the best mix of all of them.



in Pennsylvania, for example



well, for starters, government isnt culture. so you're wrong.



i never said i was moderate, you're that one who brought that up. "moderate" is a relative term like "tall" and "far". saying that means nothing anyway.



so its america's fault that your government sucks and allows foreign monopolies? that sounds like a problem with your government, not my country.



i've seen enough of them to know that my generalization is true and and exceptions will filter into the mainstream and i wont miss them.




so you're telling me that you have an "american cinema owners mafia" strongarming people and stopping them from opening their own theaters to show shitty movies that no one wants to see?

thats some good fiction, you should make a movie!



and thats a very self centered presumptuous statement. non-american doesnt equal shitty, non-american MOVIES equals shitty.

dont read too much into things in hopes you can find something to re-enforce your negative stereotypes, it makes you look like a whiny little dutch girl with blond pigtails and wooden shoes.




no one needs to repress shitty stuff. by its very nature it represses itself.



but thats the thing, we're not doing it. your own people (non-americans) are doing it to themselves. there's no conspiracy other than we know what people want, and make it available to them, in a free manner. if you dont want it, dont buy it.

thats all there is to it! welcome to american 101! if you dont like something, dont buy it. if no one buys it, it goes away. no one is forcing you to buy anything America, you just do. dont blame us if your stale and tired Europe loses its tired and stale identity and progresses forward instead of digging their heels in and living in the past (like the middle east).




resistance is futile Locutus.

except we aren't invading, we're exporting.
http://tinyurl.com/4gt5w2

in your own language:


YOU HAVE NO FUCKING RIGHT TO COMMENT ON RELIGIONS YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA ABOUT... COZ UR TOO DUMB TO UNDERSTAND THINGS THAT ARE TOO MUCH FOR U TO TAKE...

your fucking lifestyle is soo sad... bloody Americans have no CULTURE... any man and woman sleep together...

Most of the REST OF THE WORLD... or (the rest of the fucking world, in ur words) - have culture and dont fuck every other person like dogs do...

YOUR country has the maximum amount of depressed people...

YOUR country has the most number of alcoholics

YOUR country has the most number of pedos and rapists

YOUR country has the most number of obese people - again, due to lifestyle prob.

YOUR country has the dumbest president - the whole world laughs about him..

YOUR country has people who have the least knowledge about world news - can b clearly seen - this article proves that well..

YOUR country NEEDS people of other countries to survive...

YOUR country cant function without asians... and YOUR country people cant survive without using things that come from Asia...

these are just a FEW...


do urself a favor...

go thru ONE-FUCKING-DAY IN YOU LIFE... WITHOUT using products that are made from people who are NOT from your fucking-country... and for one day dont take service or help from people who are not from ur fucking-country... look around u and see how much people from other countries are in YOUR country... U NEED THEM MORE THAN THEY NEED YOU..


(had to use ur kind of language to make u understand)