The mother who pretended to be a young boy to send bullying messages to a 13 year old girl was recently charged with conspiracy and "hacking."


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Flik, on 5/16/2008 10:42:40 AM
Total Posts: 570, Joined: 12/13/2007
jackanape wrote:
She fraudulently decieved the girl, invoking her trust via friendship, then started harrassing her online.

Technically, it isn't fraud unless it's deception with the intention of personal gain.
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HunterPence, on 5/16/2008 10:53:18 AM
Total Posts: 1145, Joined: 7/25/2006
"They need to rub her nose in that fact HARD."

The problem with that sentiment is that it amounts to circumventing the jury system. Basically, you're saying that we all "know" that this woman has blood on her hands, so let's throw her in jail for (wink) hacking.

It's a short step from this kind of selective prosecution to other kinds that you might not be so comfortable with. The justice system needs to be blind.

Quality ed.
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jackanape, on 5/16/2008 11:15:14 AM
Total Posts: 2368, Joined: 3/27/2006
"Technically, it isn't fraud unless it's deception with the intention of personal gain."

Pretend your a cop and see how far that idea flies.
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KazumaFujiwara, on 5/16/2008 11:29:13 AM
Total Posts: 96, Joined: 9/1/2007
I honestly think the charges against her should be dropped because I've told plenty of people that I think they'd be better off dead (not sure if any have committed suicide from it). As far as the "hacking" according to Wikipedia it's:
"Hack has several meanings in the technology and computer science fields: a clever or quick fix to a computer program problem; a clumsy or inelegant solution to a problem; or a modification of a program or device to give the user access to features that were otherwise unavailable to them."

Notice the last part "a modification of a program or device to give the user access to features that were otherwise unavailable to them." The lady is an adult, she lied about her age, apparently appearing younger than she is. But since she's an adult and would've made an adult account, she would have all of the features available to her regardless. So the "hacking" is just a reason for them to charge her.
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Flik, on 5/16/2008 11:34:31 AM
Total Posts: 572, Joined: 12/13/2007
jackanape wrote:
"Technically, it isn't fraud unless it's deception with the intention of personal gain."

Pretend your a cop and see how far that idea flies.

Impersonating a public servant is a separate crime altogether.

Fraud, in the legal sense, is defined thus:
Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.

Lori has numbers 1, 2, 4 and 5 handled, but isn't in violation of 3.  Technically, her fraud needs to deprive the victim of some legal right.  I don't see that it does.
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Anonymity, on 5/16/2008 11:43:12 AM
Total Posts: 9, Joined: 4/8/2008
Logic and reasoning of the current laws tell me that she did nothing wrong, my emotions however tell me to skin that bitch alive.

However, there is one problem with this thats bothering me. HockeyGod you support the law, but what if the law was changed or a new law was created, would you support it then? I'm saying this because you rely on that heavily in your ed. If the law was changed so it accounted for abusing the teen into suicide, would you be against the law?
In other words, if the law was changed to punish those that verbally abuse people that commit suicide before the teen died, would your views have changed? Would you have argued for the conviction of the mother?

New laws are created to fight new types of crime, before they made it illegal to download files/music/movies was it wrong or wrong right after they made it illegal?
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Kinderplatz, on 5/16/2008 11:59:30 AM
Total Posts: 366, Joined: 9/24/2007
"Technically, her fraud needs to deprive the victim of some legal right. I don't see that it does."

How about the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I don't know that that's exactly and legal right though.

@ HunterPence

Fair enough.

Edit: Also, based on the quote, "intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim" I'm pretty sure that's covered as that is why she had the account created in the first place.
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Flik, on 5/16/2008 12:37:03 PM
Total Posts: 572, Joined: 12/13/2007
Kinderplatz wrote:
Edit: Also, based on the quote, "intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim" I'm pretty sure that's covered as that is why she had the account created in the first place.

To clarify:

http://legal-dictionary.tfd.com/fraud wrote:
Third, the false statement must be made with the intent to deprive the victim of some legal right.
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Kinderplatz, on 5/16/2008 1:29:17 PM
Total Posts: 367, Joined: 9/24/2007
Flik wrote:
Kinderplatz wrote:
Edit: Also, based on the quote, "intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim" I'm pretty sure that's covered as that is why she had the account created in the first place.

To clarify:

http://legal-dictionary.tfd.com/fraud wrote:
Third, the false statement must be made with the intent to deprive the victim of some legal right.


Thanks, that would be the hard one to prove in a court of law.
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jackanape, on 5/16/2008 2:04:40 PM
Total Posts: 2370, Joined: 3/27/2006
Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.

1. Lying about her age and name both qualify as deceptive. Whether Myspace has rules regarding that, I'm unsure. Would need to read the TOS.

2. She knew she was lying when she made the account

3. She made friends with the girl under an alias, intentionally.

4. Well, she's dead, so good luck getting a statement.

5. See 4.
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