We have no choice but to immediately gift war and freedom to Iran, today.


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nodnarb232001, on 1/10/2008 3:38:52 PM
Total Posts: 1275, Joined: 8/20/2006
@TheRealStuff

"He said freedoms you've lost. You haven't lost Habeas Corpus. It was always possible to suspend it in special circumstances; a new special circumstance has been added."

"I do not believe the people have the right to Habeas Corpus"
"The Constitution does not explicity grant Habeas Corpus, it just says it can't be taken away"~ Attorney General Alberto Gonzelas. They've been trying to take away Habeas Corpus for some time now. Oh, and the Constitution also states that the writ of Habeas Corpus is not to be infringed upon under any circumstances, except in time of dire national emergency. We are NOT in a dire emergency.
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TwoPieceCharlie, on 1/10/2008 3:38:58 PM
Total Posts: 189, Joined: 11/7/2006
@JohnnyStallion

You can't pin Darfur or Rwanda entirely on the United States because any country could have, and should have stepped in.

But nobody did because their was no economic interest in doing so, which is a cynical viewpoint but unfortunately true.
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HyenaThePIrate, on 1/10/2008 3:50:51 PM
Total Posts: 1350, Joined: 7/26/2006
"Constitution also states that the writ of Habeas Corpus is not to be infringed upon under any circumstances, except in time of dire national emergency. We are NOT in a dire emergency. "

- At the time that was written, there were no terrorists flying planes into buildings, suicide bombers igniting themselves in crowded civilian populations, and saber rattling enemies determined to either subvert us to their religious beliefs or kill us.
At that time, there were no computers, cell phones, organizations built around causing death and destruction to people with different political and religious views.

We are at WAR. Our enemies have shown that they are not only willing, but capable of raining fire down upon the innocent people of our nation if we stop being viligant for even ONE MOMENT.

I dont often give Ron Paul credit for things, but I watched him in an interview where he was questioned about his 9/11 comments and the 'truther' movement, and he dismissed them, the conspiracy theories and the movement itself, and said something i actually can agree with him on. He said that he does not believe our government was directly involved in 9/11, but that by us being 'responsible' for it, he meant that the mistakes made by members of our intelligence services who were not diligent when an attack was imminent constitutes 'responsibility'.

In that regard, i agree that if someone had data or information and did not process it accordingly with the appropriate amount of attention, then that person is partly responsible due to their neglicence and/or incompetence.

That said, it raises the point that if we are lax, then our enemies will HIT us again, maybe even worse than 9/11, if thats possible. We cannot afford to go back to sleep, which is what Liberals want.

Taking all of that into consideration, suspending habeas corpus is almost a given, and i doubt any founding father if they were alive today would disagree. Times change, and the laws governing a society MUST change and ADAPT with the level of that society.
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Angelos, on 1/10/2008 4:01:59 PM
Total Posts: 0, Joined: 10/9/2007
I find Ahmadinejad entertaining. All the stupid things he says. I also find the American government entertaining, for the same reasons.
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TheRealStuff, on 1/10/2008 4:05:24 PM
Total Posts: 2882, Joined: 1/1/2006
"I do not believe the people have the right to Habeas Corpus"

Citation? And what does someone's personal beliefs matter, anyway? You do realize that a human government is comprised of groups of people at different extremes coming to compromise, right?

"They've been trying to take away Habeas Corpus for some time now."

No, "they" haven't. What "they" have been trying to do is stop further terrorist attacks in the US. Which "they" have done admirably well.

What exactly is Gonzales reviled for? Oh, yeah: doing his job well.

"We are NOT in a dire emergency."

At the time the new exceptions to Habeas Corpus were drafted, we most certainly WERE.


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TheRealStuff, on 1/10/2008 4:07:31 PM
Total Posts: 2883, Joined: 1/1/2006
"Uh...Darfur? Rwanda?
It seems that we already don't do anything."

Blame that on liberal America. The precedent for this was set in Somalia, when our Democratic president and Democratic Congress decided to pull our troops out and abandon the entire mission because some soldiers were killed (yes, sad, but part of the job).

Osama bin Laden has stated that this was the action that emboldened him: he realized that if you poke the US, liberals will scream, cry, pull back, and give you everything you want.

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dandatrk, on 1/10/2008 4:37:50 PM
Total Posts: 57, Joined: 1/18/2007
@TheRealStuff
Yes the US lest Somalia, but there where other nation involved, it was a UN mission, and it was not like in the movies that you have seen where the US soldiers win the day with no help and killing everyone Rambo style.
Osama Bin Laden is the product of the CIA handiwork, so if you want to blame anyone for his actions its the CIA, who armed him, trained him and gave him the opportunities to do these things.
And you have never heard of diplomacy, when the democrats were in power, the US could hold its head high, and only the poor nations hated them, but look at the state of the country now, it is controlled by lobbyists and not by the people.
And war with Iran would never happen, it will be like Vietnam but a whole lot more Americans will die, and seeing now that the democrats will win power once more, it looks like the US won't go to war, trying to justify it by saying they have WMD's and just going in for the oil.
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HyenaThePIrate, on 1/10/2008 5:04:15 PM
Total Posts: 1352, Joined: 7/26/2006
@dandatrk

"Yes the US lest Somalia, but there where other nation involved, it was a UN mission"

- Which failed like failing was some kind of holy DUTY and fell apart completely, utterly, and miserably within weeks of the U.S. departure. Without the U.S. the U.N. has no teeth.

"it was not like in the movies that you have seen where the US soldiers win the day with no help and killing everyone Rambo style."

- Actually thats pretty close to what it IS like. I recall at the beginning of the Iraq war, when everyone was busy touting the tough, dug in ruggedness and tenacity of the Iraqi Republican guard.. only to have them killed at some insane ratio of like 50 to 1 within the first two 'engagements' (routes). Over the past few decades, people have attempted to play up the enemies of America like they were Ricky Hatton, only to have said enemy forces beaten embarrassingly and convincingly by the Mayweather-esque United States.

"Osama Bin Laden is the product of the CIA handiwork, so if you want to blame anyone for his actions its the CIA, who armed him, trained him and gave him the opportunities to do these things."

- Osama is the product of 'peaceful' muslims sitting on the fence with their heads in the bottom of their burkas pretending that 'extremism' and 'radical islam' doesnt really exist.

"And you have never heard of diplomacy, when the democrats were in power, the US could hold its head high, and only the poor nations hated them, but look at the state of the country now, it is controlled by lobbyists and not by the people."

- Actually the U.S. was still being looked down upon by poor nations, who hated us, our enemies were emboldened, the Trade center was attacked twice, the U.S.S. cole, several embassys.. are you seeing the emerging pattern? And yet, all the democrats accomplished in their diplomacy was to reduce our military, and cut and run from any and all altercations that resulted in any U.S. soldier getting a bruise.

By the way, Lobbyists began moving into washington most notably during the Carter administration, moved out to the suburbs during the Reagan Administration, and bought new condos right in the downtown area during the Clinton years. Lobbyists are a democrats best friend, which is the only reason anti-lobbyist rhetoric is working so well for the Democratic candidates right now, because it helps them appear to be something 'new' and fresh.. something the Democratic party hasnt been in over 30 years.

"And war with Iran would never happen, it will be like Vietnam but a whole lot more Americans will die,"

- seems we heard that during our invasion of afghanistan (they fought the russians to a standstill!!) and again in Iraq (the Revolutionary Guard is 1337!). We hear it every time America is about to go to war. Then we quickly and decisively prove them wrong. A war with Iran would see any major combat operations over within weeks if not days. Anyone but an American hating idiot knows this. We arent even in the same catagory when it comes to military power.

And again with the 'for the oil!' accusations. I guess liberals figure that if they keep saying it over and over, someday it will become 'true', when in reality, it has proven to be anything BUT.
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jackanape, on 1/10/2008 5:22:17 PM
Total Posts: 1912, Joined: 3/27/2006
@Zag: I posted that video because it shows Bush making fun of his own ineptitude. This contrasts the originally quoted statements of yours made by TheRealStuff.

Not aimed towards you at all.

@Hyena:

"- Osama is the product of 'peaceful' muslims sitting on the fence with their heads in the bottom of their burkas pretending that 'extremism' and 'radical islam' doesnt really exist."

Right, it had nothing to do with the US supplying weapons and training to fight the afghans, then drpping them like a wet fish once the Soviets were defeated.
Keep believing your fairy tales.
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TheRealStuff, on 1/10/2008 5:28:37 PM
Total Posts: 2885, Joined: 1/1/2006
"Yes the US lest Somalia, but there where other nation involved"

Yes, and those helpful other nations generally provided transport, trucking, and stuff like that. As always our soldiers were the front line.

"Osama Bin Laden is the product of the CIA handiwork"

No, he's not. This is one of those persistent liberal myths that you can't get rid of with fact, like the bullshit about Bush 'stealing' the elections. Osama bin Laden was never trained by the CIA, nor did he fight in Afghanistan against the Russians. The best evidence shows that his only involvement with the fight was clerical (not surprising, he's from a rich family).

"when the democrats were in power, the US could hold its head high, and only the poor nations hated them"

Right, that explains all the terrorist attacks during Clinton's administration. Why don't you ask the world how they felt about Clinton bombing a pharmaceutical plant in order to distract us from his blowjobs?

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