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Is it Time to Abandon The Unions?

   Posted by HockeyGod  Promoted 340 days 9 hours ago  4589 views  editorial  

    Business / General Biz  |   Comments 45 comments  | 

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It's 11:00 right now in Detroit and the UAW is officially on strike. I say screw em, it's time to hire scabs. If you're going to bash this because you're in a union go ahead, but I'd be more interested in hearing your rebuttal in the comments instead!


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sajuuk, on 9/24/2007 8:34:13 AM
Total Posts: 36, Joined: 1/27/2007
Unions are not the reason the american auto trade is failing, the american auto trade is.

Cars from Japan are doing far better because they do more miles per gallon/have better emission standards.
Something the large car companies of america lobbied against. (and won)

"If company X starts making employees work 15 hours / day they're very likely to start seeking employment elsewhere. Once word gets around, nobody applies at Company X anymore. So in a desperate bid to attract workers, Company X is forced to relax their work hours."

Thats not how it works, Most people (I mean people with families) cannot afford to be out of a job, and will work slave hours for slave money. If one company ups the hours worked and lowers the pay, then other companies will too. People who strike will be fired because you can always find replacements. Someone is ALWAYS willing to do the job that others wont.

Unions are there to protect your rights in the workplace.
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schnikies79, on 9/24/2007 8:35:16 AM
Total Posts: 563, Joined: 5/24/2006
It's obvious that these companies cannot continue to exist the way they have been. At the moment, over $2000 of EVERY CAR SOLD (by GM) goes to union related benefits. Thats unsustainable. Of course the company should provide benefits, but not to the point that the company cannot sustain itself. If the union doesn't watch itself, they will price themselves out a job as the company goes under.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Autos/story?id=133499
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HockeyGod, on 9/24/2007 8:40:03 AM
Total Posts: 66, Joined: 6/5/2006
sajuuk, that's my point. Unions would hurt me.

As an employee I like to compete against other employees . I know I'm good at what I do, so I like to be rewarded for it. I've been in places where Unions force me to receive a raise of far less than I would have if we weren't unionized - and I did the smart thing: I left for more money.

I think workers rights are self correcting. It forces the good employees to leave in search of better job (and the crappy employees to improve so that they can leave for a better job) Eventually companies can't find willing employees and are forced to change their practices to lure employees.

We're already seeing it out in silicon valley as Google et al have to offer free lunch and what not to attract the top minds in the computer science industry.
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Excile, on 9/24/2007 9:43:30 AM
Total Posts: 20, Joined: 5/7/2006
@ hockeyGod

but see the problem here is that, Companies who arn't unionized, will always find the cheapest way possible to pay there workforce... Without a union you may want that extra doller, but then the company is like to bad, fires you and highers a mexicain, who will work for nothing and prob work 20 times better then you.. Without unions the workforce goes back to the industrial age
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Fido, on 9/24/2007 9:51:08 AM
Total Posts: 1974, Joined: 1/3/2007
Hockey God,

As outsourcing continues, Google, Microsoft, AT&T, etc, may move as many as 2 million tech jobs to Asia in the next few years. The free lunch will come in handy as more and more are unemployed. Of course it's not all bad, just learn to speak Hindi or Chinese and work for half the wages.

I don't think unions are destroying the economy, or should be blamed for the over-pricing of American goods. Blame a government that sees corporate profit as the only focus. Hopefully it will come around as Asian governments and workers demand a bigger piece of the pie and begin to the close the gap in production costs.

Be the best employee in the world, until someone takes your job at half the pay. Funny that, that was one reason for unionizing in the first place.



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Beeker, on 9/24/2007 9:53:01 AM
Total Posts: 901, Joined: 9/19/2006
You can't comepete against other employees. That's bad for you, them, and the overall workings of the company. Unions are what made the boom of eras possible, without them the entire economy seems to stutter.

~Future Electrican Journeyman, Beeker
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HockeyGod, on 9/24/2007 10:01:16 AM
Total Posts: 67, Joined: 6/5/2006
Unions are outdated.

Unions began because old Mr ford was taking advantage of employees. They were completely unskilled, doing menial tasks.. for low pay and long hours.

Back then though, there were 2 choices. You worked for Ford, or you worked for yourself on a farm, blacksmith, etc.

It's not like there were multiple companies around competing for workers. Today there are!

The non union forces companies to compete with workign conditions. It also forces non skilled employees to learn a skill, or be stuck with crappy working conditions. More skilled workers in the economy is always a good thing. It drives a lot of things.

Even outsourcing is cyclical. Eventually the costs even out. There's a price to pay in customer retention by going foreign, and eventually as we keep throwing money overseas the economy there improves, lifestyle improves, and then they ask for a more reasonable wage. It all just takes time.. but it all works out in the end.

Your example of an immigrant taking my job.. If he's 20X better than me, he'll soon realize that and take a higher paying better conditioned job. Thus the company is left hiring a worse worker, or changing it's polices to get better workers.
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georox, on 9/24/2007 10:19:14 AM
Total Posts: 4, Joined: 12/14/2006
Hate to say it but Unions are fucking Michigan thanks to the car thing. Ford plant near here is about to close and its that many more people for everyone else to compete with for jobs, and people in unions always demand way to fucking much for what they do here.
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HockeyGod, on 9/24/2007 10:28:11 AM
Total Posts: 68, Joined: 6/5/2006
That's another thing georox.. unskilled line workers receive far more pay and fare more benefits than they're worth. Compared to other non skilled jobs (and many skilled jobs) the union salaries are much higher than the free market dictates.


My friend's dad has been to rehab for crack about 6 times now... but still has his job at [auto company]. Since he passed a drug test upon initial hiring, they are not allowed to fire him now... instead they must pay for his rehab. Those are the polices that are killing them.
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Fido, on 9/24/2007 10:39:33 AM
Total Posts: 1975, Joined: 1/3/2007
HockeyGod,

No one said your immigrant is better at your job than you. He will just work for less and do the same job or close enough to it that your paycheck is a liability to the bottom line, and out the door you go. Again, it has been unions that have protected jobs and pay rates.

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